Suzanne Boyer:
Organizations often struggle with, how do you do a performance evaluation without giving some kind of score or rating? So I think that there still is this philosophy about needing to do that. So this is a pretty creative way to go about performance evaluations.
Dan Baum:
The annual performance review. The anticipation, the dread, the trying to remember what you did impressively 11 months ago. A place of judgment for both the reviewer and the reviewee that looks back and not ahead. Could there be a better way? In this episode we're going to hear from two experts who led the creation of a new award-winning process that has everyone talking. I'm Dan Baum and you're listening to Redefine U.
Suzanne Boyer:
I'm Suzanne Boyer, I'm the executive director of human resources.
Lisa Sanford:
Lisa Sanford, director of HR operations.
Dan Baum:
Well, thank you for being here. I'm excited that you're both joining me. What I was hoping we could talk about is the new evaluation process at AACC called EXCELL. Suzanne, why don't you walk us through what exactly is that? What does the acronym stand for and what are we talking about here?
Suzanne Boyer:
So we have a not so new anymore new performance evaluation system called EXCELL. So EXCELL means express appreciation, constructive coaching, environment and values, learning and growth, and listen to the employee and develop goals together. So the premise is that it is focused on growth and development and not so much at looking at past performances like we did with the performance evaluation system that we had in the past. So prior to this we had a system that you used once a year. You went into an actual computer system that we purchased some software, it had 12 competencies, you had to give a score from one to five, and people had lots of angst about what that number was, and if you didn't get all fives, what that meant.
And we found a lot of inconsistencies in the ratings and how that was across the board in terms of equity for people. So some supervisors never gave a five, some supervisors would always give a five. So it became this exercise that really wasn't a discussion about people's performance, about their future, about what they wanted to do, but yet kind of this grading system. So EXCELL was developed to get away from that and also to focus in on some of the new college values that we had recently selected.
Dan Baum:
I'm definitely going to want to dig into that a little bit more. I'm just curious, maybe Lisa, you could help with, were there other organizations or other colleges that served as models? How did this whole thing even come about?
Lisa Sanford:
I think it was a topic that was emerging. People were talking about a little bit, but I think a lot of organizations were not yet ready to take the leap. So I think what really set us up here at AACC is because we already had established a coaching culture here, so people understood what we meant when we talked about coaching. So I think other organizations who don't have a coaching culture, aren't familiar with coaching, maybe need to do a little bit of prep work in that regard.
Dan Baum:
So tell me a little more, either one of you could weigh in, because you're both coaches, so you've mentioned it's coachy conversations, rooted in coaching. What's the connection and why do you say that that's a foundation of this?
Lisa Sanford:
I think just because it's based on helping employees move from point A to point B in terms of their career, and to me that's really what coaching is all about, is helping people with whatever situation they have moving from point A to point B.
Suzanne Boyer:
I think it's also more like a dialogue rather than a one directional way of conversation that the supervisor is only giving feedback. It is very much a conversation between the employee and the supervisor and they're focused on moving forward instead of looking at what happened in the prior year.
Dan Baum:
Obviously not everybody who's a supervisor is a coach, so how does your office or how do you help those supervisors who maybe don't have that kind of background and it's maybe not as natural or familiar?
Suzanne Boyer:
We offered a lot of training opportunities for people to come to learn a little bit about coaching and what that would look like to actually... We demonstrated some examples of that. So we've continued to do that, and as the coaching culture has expanded at AACC, we have more and more coaches who I think have become very accustomed to it. But we gave people sample opening line statements, how to start a conversation, how to talk about what that employee has done that is something that you want to acknowledge. And then also how to provide constructive coaching and criticism of that person in terms of what are we going to do to make this particular issue better?
Dan Baum:
The previous system, as you described, it sounds pretty traditional. Many organizations do it that way, a numbering system. You also said it created a little bit of angst because... On both parties. What's different about how the supervisor shows up and then how.... you said it's a dialogue. What's different about this whole process?
Suzanne Boyer:
I think it's... Supervisors have indicated it's a lot easier on them. It's not a burden to have conversations. We actually ask that supervisors have those conversations twice a year, which before it was once a year, and we would get pushed and people wouldn't want to do them because they had to sit down and fill out a form and pick this one to five and write comments. So that was a struggle for folks. I think what often happens, and I know what I do, is that I'll write down some thoughts ahead of time, but I don't fill out my worksheet until I have that conversation with the employee. So it really is a dialogue and I think creates less of a burden, really, on the supervisor, and asks for some ownership of the employee.
Lisa Sanford:
I think some of the things that are different from a traditional annual evaluation is traditional is backwards-focused, coaching is forward-focused. Traditional is an annual evaluation, coaching is continuous feedback and dialogue, and traditional is formal, and coaching is just a little bit more relaxed.
Dan Baum:
I can't help but sense there's also judgment in there. The traditional is giving a score, in some way you're passing some judgment. Is there any element of that or... Because it is a supervisor/supervisee relationship. Is there any element of that or is it really focused, as you said, on the growth?
Lisa Sanford:
I think it's really just focused on the growth. We have other tools that we can use if someone really is struggling and needs to be more formally evaluated and set up a plan for improvement. So I think this I'd like to stick with just being a coaching conversation and taking the formality of any scores or judgment out of it.
Dan Baum:
Kind of makes me think at the AACC we have this mastery project on the learning side, which is focused on the learning and not so much on the grading, and it takes a lot of pressure off of both the instructor and the student really just focused on... It kind of feels a little bit like that. You mentioned, Suzanne, values in there, and that values is a big component. Tell me how that's a part of the EXCELL and what that connection is to our college values. What's that all about?
Suzanne Boyer:
So after actually the three of us were a part of the coaching program in 2016, we embarked on this idea of creating a set of college values that had not existed in the past. So I remember that day going through all these cards, you guys probably all remember that day too as well, where at convocation we asked people to put words that they thought might be of value and we ended up with 1,500 cards, sat in a room... I'm laughing thinking about us separating those things. I think we have a fast forward video of that experience. But we were able to land with... I think there were 20 categories at the end and we wanted try to get those narrowed down to five. So we continued that dialogue, had focus groups, talked with people, but came up with these college values within the college and they've been heavily embraced. I think most people can quote them. They were easy. The language that was used was really good.
So in the actual EXCELL conversation, it asks you to talk with the employee about what value they might be doing exceptionally well with. Maybe some examples of where they live out that value. And maybe a value that is a little more tough for them. So maybe the employee is struggling with positivity, that every day it's a little bit difficult because of whatever might happen. It could be technology issues, it could be their struggle with a coworker, it could be lots of things. So we ask the supervisor and the employee to have a conversation specifically about at least one of the college values, so that that continues to live throughout the document.
Dan Baum:
I'm also smiling and laughing because when you said we, that was you and I. So full disclosure, the three of us went through the pilot, at that time was a pilot of the coaching program. It's really blossomed since then, but we were among the first to do it. And then you and I took on the lead to facilitate this process at convocation. We went old school, like you said. We used actual cards, 1,500 or more of those, and a whole army of people to help us sort through them. And then we held focus groups and a lot of dialogue resulted in those values. So now that this has been in place, you said it's not that new, what's been the response? What are you hearing? You alluded to a little bit. What are you hearing from supervisors and the people they supervise?
Lisa Sanford:
I think we're hearing a lot of positive statements about it. Supervisors love it so much more because it's easier, it's more of a conversation. There's not as much anxiety around it for both the supervisor and the employee. One of the things that struck me when we got the feedback after the pilot program especially was from employees, and they said their favorite part of the new process was that their supervisor actually started off the conversation by expressing appreciation for something. So that little thing I think really went a long way to set the stage.
Dan Baum:
That just kicks it off. It starts off with that appreciation. So I'm curious about the original expectations. How has this matched up... Now that you've gotten that feedback it's been in place for? How does that match up with your original expectations? What challenges did you anticipate and how have you handled those?
Suzanne Boyer:
That's a good question. Originally we talked about doing this every 90 days and we found that supervisors, I think, and employees, it might've been just a little too much. So that was a piece of feedback, and we said, "Let's go back to doing this twice a year." We think twice a year is enough. I also have found, even though we're saying do it twice a year, there's a lot more conversation that is more coach-like coming from supervisors, even though it's not required anymore, that that's happening kind of naturally. So that was one thing that we changed.
We also have included conversations around community service or community meeting the college. There was questions about, "Hey, I am participating in all these committees. I'd like to have some acknowledgement around that." And we didn't have a place for that, so we included that as well. We've also included things around the DEIA training and making sure that folks are participating in what that looks like. What are you doing to reach those DEIA goals? So I think overall it's really met our expectations. We continue to look at it to see if there's places that we can improve, but the feedback we get about it, gosh, from every level of employee, from a groundskeeper to the president, are very happy with what it looks like today.
Dan Baum:
Yeah, it's awesome. And that's internal. You've also gotten from external too, right? Hasn't it gotten attention, won an award or...
Lisa Sanford:
Yes. We won an innovation award from CUPA-HR, which is our professional association in higher education. And I actually presented at the conference last October in San Diego and had a really great response to that. It was a lot of fun. It generated a lot of conversation. And ever since then we still... I was telling Suzanne last week, we got another inquiry from another college because our stuff is out there on CUPA's website to say, "Hey, I'd really love to do this. Can I talk to you? Can you give me some materials?" And we've been sharing it with a lot of different colleges and universities.
Dan Baum:
Naturally it would win an innovation award. That's one of our core values. Are there industry trends in this kind of continuous feedback like EXCELL? Are you seeing more of those kinds of trends?
Suzanne Boyer:
I think there are some. I think that organizations often struggle with how do you do a performance evaluation without giving some kind of score or rating. So I think that there still is this philosophy about needing to do that. So this is a pretty creative way to go about performance evaluation. So I think it is catching on where I suspect higher ed is going to be the leader in that, and you may not see it in industry per se, but I think higher ed certainly is catching on. And as Lisa said, most of the Maryland community colleges have inquired about it, and then we've got people from all over the country who are asking questions and wanting to look at it. But as mentioned initially, I think it really is focused back on this coaching culture that we have at AACC that I don't know that other institutions have.
Lisa Sanford:
I also think what gets in the way of some organizations being able to do this is something that we kicked to the curb a long time ago and, that's trying to figure out how to pay for performance. And I think at the college we stopped doing that many years ago because it doesn't work, it's not equitable, it's not consistent and fair. And I have the outlook that you should reward everyone equitably who is contributing to the organization and not grade them and try to do just very small increments of... Somebody might get as small as $200 more than another person in their annual increase and it means nothing in terms of money, but yet it means everything in terms of they feel slighted that they did not get what they were due. So I feel like our compensation program goes hand in hand with this to make it work.
Dan Baum:
So how does that work? So I can imagine particularly if you're presenting to a room of HR professionals and you're talking to other organizations, when that traditionally has been so tied. Reward, advancement, how do we handle that here and how is that now distinct from this process?
Lisa Sanford:
Well, our compensation program is really just based on really traditional legitimate factors, but it's based on your credentials and your related experience that you have to the job. And we try to compensate people equitably based on those factors. And people who are below the market rate for a position get a little bit higher of an increase until they hit that market rate. People who are above the market rate might get a little bit lower, but that keeps everything in check and it rewards everyone who's contributing to the organization.
Dan Baum:
How are you helping those who find the new system challenging?
Lisa Sanford:
I just explain to them the inequities. And they all know, we all know that supervisors are very different in terms of how they rate people. I mean, Suzanne said it earlier, some people will say, "I will never ever give a five a five, because nobody's a five." Other managers want to give their people fives. So if you have a conversation like that, people understand it's never going to be equitable.
Dan Baum:
Yeah, it's very subjective.
Suzanne Boyer:
I think we try to be really transparent too with the process, with our compensation system. So if people have questions, they have the ability to come and actually get specific information about how their salary was determined. I think the other thing that just hit me too that I should mention is that we have a leadership team, including Dr. Lindsay, who has been incredibly supportive of the changes that we've suggested both in the compensation system and in the performance evaluation system, and she has embraced it and the support of her and the vice presidents has been phenomenal, and we are very lucky to have that.
Dan Baum:
It feels like it takes a lot of the guesswork out, that the parts that people were questioning felt that it wasn't fair, taking that out while personalizing... You said even just the opening validation that is received is well received.
Lisa Sanford:
I think another thing related to the compensation part is if you really look at the people who have been promoted within your organization over the years, you're going to see those are your high performers. They're increasing their salary on their own by going for better opportunities within the organization.
Dan Baum:
Well, with this new process, how has it changed or impacted the employees and their relationship with their supervisor? Are you seeing changes in those relationships college-wide?
Suzanne Boyer:
I think they're definitely more positive. There's a defined time for conversations that may not have happened in the past. We do try to keep track of those evaluations, that they're coming in to make sure that they're occurring and then remind supervisors if they need a little nudge. And we really have very good completion rates. So I think employees are feeling much more appreciated and valued and have only really given us positive feedback.
Dan Baum:
So for an organization that would like to do this, you're already being approached by some, so what are you advising them?
Lisa Sanford:
The first thing I advise people is to do it as a pilot program. I've learned that in a lot of new things you want to roll out. It takes the pressure and anxiety out of it because it lets people know, "Oh, this is just a test. This isn't a real change that's going to happen, and we're going to be able to give feedback about it at the end of the pilot period." So I really encourage people to do it as a pilot, whether it's a college-wide pilot or you want to start it with maybe just one department or one school and then roll it out. I just think that it helps people to be less anxious about the change.
Dan Baum:
Because we're talking about innovation, it makes me think about changes that are just working... Changes in the workplace already. I don't know how to refer to the before time. I'm going to say BC, before COVID, BC, we had a certain level of social interaction at work, we were all together, and then we had a certain period of isolation, and now we have this hybrid environment, which is both the working environment and here at the college, the learning environment is also hybrid. How is the shift impacting employees as you see them? I'm just curious what you feel has either been lost or gained. What changes have you seen?
Suzanne Boyer:
That's a good question. I think that in general the employee base has become much more adaptable and certainly our technology skills have increased. I remember the early days where couldn't even figure out how to get on a Zoom, much less change your background. I mean, we counted on a few people who had had that experience, and now we've all become much more knowledgeable about that in Teams. So I certainly think that. I think groups are and teams are finding out ways to continue the social aspects of work that maybe we don't see them every day, but we make intentional efforts to be together at different times, whether that's at a staff meeting, whether that's at some kind of social event.
I actually think in some ways we're much more available. People use Teams chat, we can quickly find out the answer to a question. I could be sitting with Lisa doing a meeting and be chatting with somebody else on the team to ask a question that normally I would've written down and then gone back and figured out and then emailed that person. So I think in that communication has gotten so much better. But I think it's important to remember that hybrid, all remote, or all in person doesn't necessarily work for everyone, and each of us have this flexibility. We're really lucky that the college has a telework, an alternative work schedule policy, and what may work for one may not work for another, so we all have to continue to figure out what that dynamic's going to look like for us as a team.
Dan Baum:
So it sounds like a lot of gains here at AACC. How about just the needs of employees today, given that we have shifted the way we work? What are the needs and how is your office working to meet those needs?
Suzanne Boyer:
I think the needs of the employees are certainly much greater. I think that there's a much more awareness to mental health issues and to work-life balance issues. People are not afraid to talk about their needs and what they might need being at home and at work. So we're finding a much larger need for that. So one thing that we just did in our office is we restructured some positions and we have a new director of employee engagement who is going to work specifically on that topic. We also just recently hired, who will start in April, an employee relations specialist. The employee relations issues that we're dealing with are much larger, they're not short things, and we try to do a really good job of supporting our employees where they are. And that often takes time. So we're trying to put more resources towards that.
Dan Baum:
Since we're a college, I'm just curious for students who are interested in this career, in human resources, what can they expect day-to-day? I don't know if there is a typical day in HR, but what does life in HR look like?
Suzanne Boyer:
Busy.
Lisa Sanford:
Yeah. Expect your plan for the day to go off track and be agile about that. I think it's good to have a plan, but to know that your plan is probably not going to work out every day. And a really important thing for HR professionals is that you have to have a plan to take care of yourself because many of the issues that you work with in HR can be very draining emotionally, and it's just like you have to take care of yourself before you're going to be able to be there for others. So I think having a plan in place for self-care is very important.
Suzanne Boyer:
Yeah, I would totally agree. We're somewhat of a service to the employees at the college, so you never know what the day's going to bring. So you may need to provide a service and your plan might've been to do something else, but that's what you're going to do today. So I think Lisa's point about figuring out how to take care of yourself, and as a team, as an HR team, kind of taking care of each other. And then finding those resources that are a support to you.
Dan Baum:
Since we started with EXCELL, is there any aspects of that that we didn't touch on that you were hoping I would cover or something that we may have missed?
Lisa Sanford:
Well, I think something that's really exciting that has come out of this, this whole program was focused on staff. We're not responsible for faculty evaluations. That comes out of the division of learning. But when we rolled this out, the faculty actually came to us because they heard about it and they wanted more information about it because they were interested in changing their own process, which had been around for a long time and was more of the traditional evaluation. So I actually got invited to sit on the committee of faculty who were working on updating faculty evaluations, and they've taken many components of this and put it into their own system now for faculty.
Dan Baum:
I didn't really realize that. I mean, I know that in some ways we have different systems, there's a different process for hiring and tenure and various things for faculty, so I can understand why that would be different, but I didn't realize that when it was rolled out, it didn't begin that way, but that now everybody has a EXCELL type of approach. That's cool.
Suzanne Boyer:
I think the other thing that I failed to mention too is that our staff compensation committee that was just staff was a huge part of creation and review of this process. So when Lisa talked about tips if you want to start this and talked about doing pilots, I would also say involve as many of the constituents as you can to get their feedback, because that's really important. And I think it helped us get buy-in. So I would always encourage that. That happened with the faculty and that happened with the staff, and I think that was critical. It was not something that HR was rolling out and saying, "This is what we think you should do, so now go do it." It was very much a partnership in what we presented.
Dan Baum:
Partnership's a good way to look at the overall EXCELL. As a supervisor and for myself and then the other directors in my department, from what they tell me, it's a better process, and I would say it's not... I wouldn't necessarily use the word easy because being coach-like and coachy is not, I would not say is easy, but it certainly is a partnership. Instead of, like I said, feeling almost like in judgment and you're trying to have a score, you're now in partnership with that person to help them progress where they want to go. It's a much better process, for sure.
Suzanne Boyer:
We're really happy to have had the opportunity to partner with the college community to be able to implement it.
Lisa Sanford:
And I have to say that our college, I'm just going to give more kudos to the leadership of the college, is so open to trying new things like this, whereas a lot of colleges and universities, I mean I've worked at a few others, it takes a lot to even just get permission to try a pilot program, and our leadership here really supports that kind of thing.
Dan Baum:
Hey, values of innovation and creativity, opportunity, community and relationships, we pack it all in. Well, speaking of, I want to just express my gratitude to both of you for not only being here, but for working with you because I get enormous support from both of you and I know our team feels enormous support from the two of you and from HR as a whole, so I just want to thank you for that.
Suzanne Boyer:
We get the same from you also. Thank you.
Dan Baum:
Employees are being celebrated, real conversations are being had, and important things are getting done. AACC has, dare I say, redefined the work evaluation process by removing the judgment and increasing the partnership. There really can be a better way. And that brave move is getting noticed.
Redefine U is a production of Anne Arundel Community College. Our executive producer is Allison Baumbusch. Our producer and editor is Amanda Behrens. Our writer is Angie Hamlet. Our audio engineer is John Wood. Others who help with this podcast include Alicia Renehan, Ricky Hartford, and Ben Pierce. Special thanks to Suzanne Boyer and Lisa Sanford. Find show notes, how to subscribe, and other extras on our website, aacc.edu/podcast. I'm your host and creator of this podcast, Dan Baum. Thanks for listening.